tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post8228210873182184722..comments2024-01-05T08:15:28.172-05:00Comments on What's on HDTV?: Blu-ray Audio Codecs Revisitederichttp://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comBlogger30125tag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-35091910137056995062015-07-01T03:01:08.739-04:002015-07-01T03:01:08.739-04:00You can also check this AVCHD to DVD burner out!You can also check this <a href="http://www.leawo.org/tutorial/convert-and-burn-avchd-to-dvd.html" rel="nofollow">AVCHD to DVD</a> burner out!Anonymoushttps://www.blogger.com/profile/08841042834326081937noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-37277995053362529422010-01-16T10:00:40.688-05:002010-01-16T10:00:40.688-05:00Mandy,
You asked:
There has been a strange occur...Mandy,<br /><br />You asked:<br /><br /><i>There has been a strange occurrence:<br /><br />Earlier when i was mistakenly using 1.2a HDMI (now its HDMI 1.3C) to route signal from Player to Reciever, the Truehd light did lit up on my reciever and showed the same signal info.<br /><br />I am confused here, that means 1.2a can also carry HD signals?<br /><br />But HDMI specs for 1.2a don't agree.</i><br /><br />I take it you are wondering whether the older HDMI standard, version 1.2a, can carry Dolby TrueHD audio. According to <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Versions" rel="nofollow">this Wikipedia topic</a>, the answer is no. Only HDMI version 1.3 (and later versions) optionally support output of <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dolby_TrueHD" title="Dolby TrueHD" rel="nofollow">Dolby TrueHD</a> and <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/DTS-HD_Master_Audio" title="DTS-HD Master Audio" rel="nofollow">DTS-HD Master Audio</a> streams for external decoding by AV receivers.<br /><br />However, I don't quite know what you mean by "mistakenly using 1.2a HDMI ... to route signal from Player to Reciever." The HDMI version you are using depends mainly on the devices at either end of the HDMI cable. You have a Yamaha RX-V663 receiver and a LG BD370 Blu-ray player, both of which support Dolby TrueHD. That means both support HDMI version 1.3 (or later).<br /><br />Perhaps you are referring to the HDMI cable you were using. It is true that you nominally need a "Category 2-certified cable" (see <a href="http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hdmi#Cable_length" rel="nofollow">this Wikipedia topic</a>) for routing HDMI 1.3 audio, but the topic continues, "Many HDMI cables under 5 meters of length that were made before the HDMI 1.3 specification can work as Category 2 cables, but only Category 2-tested cables are guaranteed to work." My conclusion is that if your original cable was under 5 meters in length, probably the switch to a newer cable made no difference.<br /><br />If your original cable was unable to route TrueHD for some reason, you would not have seen the TrueHD indicator light up on your receiver!<br /><br />Regards,<br />Ericerichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-91124306868057659042010-01-16T09:10:51.087-05:002010-01-16T09:10:51.087-05:00hello Eric sir,
There has been a strange occurren...hello Eric sir,<br /><br />There has been a strange occurrence:<br /><br />Earlier when i was mistakenly using 1.2a HDMI (now its HDMI 1.3C) to route signal from Player to Reciever, the Truehd light did lit up on my reciever and showed the same signal info.<br /><br />I am confused here, that means 1.2a can also carry HD signals?<br /><br />But HDMI specs for 1.2a don't agree.<br /><br />ThanksUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472456019817289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-48202542378046833792010-01-11T09:19:29.861-05:002010-01-11T09:19:29.861-05:00Mandy (shareknow),
You wondered:
what i wanted t...Mandy (shareknow),<br /><br />You wondered:<br /><br /><i>what i wanted to to be clear is, whether this has to do with only RX-V663 or all other receivers from different manufacturers.<br /><br />As the thread mentioned here is only concerned with Yamaha RX-V663 and 863 only.<br /><br />SO NOW ITS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT "NO RECIEVER WILL SHOW BITRATE INFO FOR LOSSLESS HD SOUND CODEC'S"<br /><br />AM I RIGHT?<br /></i><br /><br />Actually, Mandy, I believe the Yamaha RX-V663 and RX-V863 receivers may be <i>unusual</i> in not showing bitrate info for lossless audio codecs, and that various other receivers (even others from Yamaha) may show this info.<br /><br />I believe Yamaha's decision to not show that info on these receivers may have to do with the chipsets they chose for the receivers. Receivers from different makers (or even from different model lines of a given maker) can use different chips for different decoding functions, and the ones that the RX-V663 and RX-V863 use for decoding non-lossless audio obviously report bitrate. The lossless decoders don't.<br /><br />That, in turn, may be because with lossless codecs, decoder-encountered bitrates are pretty much irrelevant. As output from the decoder you're sure of getting every last bit of data that existed in the original, uncompressed PCM streams that were losslessly encoded for (say) TrueHD at the time that the Blu-ray disc was mastered. What more could you want? The actual bitrates of the TrueHD-encoded intermediate stream make no difference whatsoever. That's what "lossless compression" means!<br /><br />Best regards,<br />Ericerichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-67012233415934371962010-01-11T04:59:39.303-05:002010-01-11T04:59:39.303-05:00Thanks Eric Sir,
shareknow and mandy are the same...Thanks Eric Sir,<br /><br />shareknow and mandy are the same:-).<br /><br />what i wanted to to be clear is, whether this has to do with only RX-V663 or all other receivers from different manufacturers.<br /><br />As the thread mentioned here is only concerned with Yamaha RX-V663 and 863 only.<br /><br />SO NOW ITS SAFE TO ASSUME THAT "NO RECIEVER WILL SHOW BITRATE INFO FOR LOSSLESS HD SOUND CODEC'S"<br /><br />AM I RIGHT?<br />thanksUnknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472456019817289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-33331099171876601342010-01-10T13:09:35.894-05:002010-01-10T13:09:35.894-05:00Mandy said:
Have a problem here with audio codec&...Mandy said:<br /><br /><i>Have a problem here with audio codec's and yamaha RX-V663<br /><br />while playing HD sound signals (via LG BD370 bluray player)when i hit menu---->signal info, on RX-V663, there is no info about bitrate , tried several discs with TrueHD and MA with no luck (but it does give bit rate info with standard DD & DTS signals)<br /><br />I have set my bluray player to output sound as both bitstream and MULTIPCM/LPCM but still on info about bitrate.</i><br /><br />Mandy,<br /><br />See the forum post<br /><br /><a href="http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17885604" rel="nofollow">http://www.avsforum.com/avs-vb/showthread.php?p=17885604</a><br /><br />and its following posts.<br /><br />If you happen in fact to be the author of that post (<b>shareknow</b>), then I'm wondering why you weren't satisfied by the responses.<br /><br />If you are not <b>shareknow</b>, you'll probably find out what you need to know.<br /><br />Basically, the idea seems to be that (according to <b>vladd</b>) "Bitrate doesn't show when playing HD or PCM audio formats [on the Yamaha RX-V663]. It doesn't do it on the [RX-V]863 either (same firmware). It only shows for legacy bitstreamed formats (DTS/AC-3)."<br /><br />In other words, blame the firmware Yamaha provides for that receiver.<br /><br />Another responder said that "When my PS3 plays DTS-HD Master Audio it will not send it to the receiver as a bitstream, only converted to PCM. The signal info shows 48 kHz 5.1 channel PCM and does not show a bitrate. My PS3 shows the original bitrate varying, but typically around 4.5 Mbps. This is for Battlestar Galactica: The Plan."<br /><br />I imagine by "my PS3 shows" he means that the Sony PlayStation 3 can add "Display" information, showing bitrate and other parameters, to the video picture that is forwarded to the TV screen.<br /><br />Whatever the instantaneous bitrate shown in the PS3's on-screen display is also the bitrate that the Yamaha receiver would "see" if, say, I had my PS3 hooked to that model of receiver. Your LG BD370 Blu-ray player apparently can't put a similar display on the TV screen, but you have every right to assume that your Yamaha RX-V663 is "seeing" the same instantaneous bitrates as my hypothetical one would see.<br /><br />Also, keep in mind what another responder in the thread mentioned above said: If you are playing a TrueHD soundtrack on your player, then (because TrueHD is lossless) you cannot be getting anything <i>other than</i> the best possible sound quality that the Blu-ray disc is capable of providing. It doesn't really matter whether you are having your player decode the soundtrack and send linear PCM to your receiver, or you are sending the TrueHD bitstream to the receiver as-is and having the receiver do the decoding.<br /><br />The exact same thing is true if you are playing a PCM soundtrack on Blu-ray, which is likewise lossless -- it's not even digitally compressed in the first place!<br /><br />So, Mandy, you can stop worrying and just sit back and enjoy ...<br /><br />Cheers,<br />Ericerichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-7559539078929235992010-01-09T02:57:13.410-05:002010-01-09T02:57:13.410-05:00Have a problem here with audio codec's and yam...Have a problem here with audio codec's and yamaha RX-V663<br /><br />while playing HD sound signals (via LG BD370 bluray player)when i hit menu---->signal info, on RX-V663, there is no info about bitrate , tried several discs with TrueHD and MA with no luck (but it does give bit rate info with standard DD & DTS signals)<br /><br />I have set my bluray player to output sound as both bitstream and MULTIPCM/LPCM but still on info about bitrate.<br /><br />ERIC sir plz help out, what could be the reason?Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472456019817289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-62997889835111365522010-01-09T02:44:49.849-05:002010-01-09T02:44:49.849-05:00This comment has been removed by the author.Unknownhttps://www.blogger.com/profile/10472456019817289045noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-10325902176461647052009-04-07T09:11:00.000-04:002009-04-07T09:11:00.000-04:00Anonymous asked:I dont have a receiver with HDMI. ...Anonymous asked:<BR/><BR/><I>I dont have a receiver with HDMI. SOmeone suggested i get a blue ray player that decodes the uncompressed sound and make it so that it can be played through a receiver without hdmi. ( i think the store said sony makes one) if thats possible...will it still be the same quality sound as if it was played through HDMI?</I><BR/><BR/>There are two separate issues here.<BR/><BR/>One is the ability of any particular model of Blu-ray player that you might consider buying to decode the various audio codecs internally without discarding any of the information. You want to make sure that the player decodes both the "core" and the "extension" information for 7.1-channel <B>DTS-HD Master Audio</B> and for 7.1-channel <B>Dolby TrueHD</B> audio.<BR/><BR/>The second is the ability of the Blu-ray player to provide all the channels of the audio to the receiver, while <I>not</I> using HDMI. For 7.1-channel audio, this requires that the player and receiver both have connections to pass 7 channels of <I>analog</I> audio (plus the .1-channel Low Frequency Effects or bass information for a subwoofer, which requires an 8th analog connection).<BR/><BR/>Putting both considerations together, you want to be sure the player decodes all 8 of the available channels for the two highest-resolution audio codecs and passes all 8 of them along to the receiver in the form of multi-channel analog connections.<BR/><BR/>If your current receiver can't provide the requisite 8 multi-channel analog audio connections, your best bet is to bite the bullet and buy a new receiver that uses HDMI. Then get your best deal on a Blu-ray player that gives you the option to (a) decode the codecs I just mentioned into 7.1-channel Linear PCM and outputs that form of audio on HDMI, or (b) pass these and the other codecs I mentioned in my original article <I>as is</I> on HDMI for decoding in the receiver itself.<BR/><BR/>Finally, a word of caution: don't be fooled into thinking that you can get "all the audio" if you pass the audio from the player to the receiver along what are now old-fashioned "optical digital" and/or "coaxial digital" audio connections. These require that the audio of the best codecs (the ones I just mentioned) be pared down to shoehorn it into the lower-than-HDMI bandwidth of these now-obsolete connections.erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-66961524955957973742009-04-06T20:17:00.000-04:002009-04-06T20:17:00.000-04:00This is a great site..thanks for all the useful in...This is a great site..thanks for all the useful info. I was wondering i you could answer a question for me. <BR/>I dont have a receiver with HDMI. SOmeone suggested i get a blue ray player that decodes the uncompressed sound and make it so that it can be played through a receiver without hdmi. ( i think the store said sony makes one) if thats possible...will it still be the same quality sound as if it was played through HDMI?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-28874467881600860572009-02-19T09:23:00.000-05:002009-02-19T09:23:00.000-05:00Jayjay,Thanks for your praise!As for your question...Jayjay,<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your praise!<BR/><BR/>As for your question, I must confess I don't quite understand what you are trying to say. So I'll just try to point you to a source that might answer your concerns.<BR/><BR/>You can get all the official information about DTS-HD by reading the <A HREF="http://www.dts.com/DownloadDocument.aspx?q=a7beda1e-cfe6-4ca4-b6b2-cda9554bb6a5" REL="nofollow">DTS-HD White Paper</A>.<BR/><BR/>According to this paper, DTS-HD in its full-fledged form — DTS-HD Master Audio — can deliver "a bit-for-bit recreation of the original master recording using variable bit rate encoding as high as 24.5 Mbps."<BR/><BR/>"An existing A/V receiver or system with DTS decoding can play back DTS-HD Master Audio at 1.5 Mbps, nearly twice the data rate of other formats," it says. I do not actually know whether this "core" decoding of what is effectively DTS 5.1 material (i.e., ignoring the DTS-HD "extension") has a bit rate that is more precisely 1.509 Mbps, or 1.536 Mbps. <A HREF="http://www.videohelp.com/hd" REL="nofollow">This source</A> says the latter, while the paper mentioned above says the former. I am not sure the disagreement over the extra decimal places makes any practical difference. Would you comment further on the subject if you disagree?<BR/><BR/>Thanks for your input!erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-37191730442622199892009-02-19T01:41:00.000-05:002009-02-19T01:41:00.000-05:00Dear EricI won't add further congratulations, even...Dear Eric<BR/><BR/>I won't add further congratulations, even if you desserve them considering the hard task you did in this Blu-ray Audio codecs description and explanation. Great job.<BR/><BR/>I have just one question. I would like to draw your attention on the maximum bit rate that you have mentioned for the DTS Digital Surround coding. Your wrote 1.524 Mbps. Just as a reminder for DVD this maximum bit rate was set to 1.536 Mbps but usually we find on a DVD 768 kbps. But as far as I could understand now the DTS Digital Surround is the fondation of the DTS HD architecture to anaible scalability and it starts as a core stream at 1.509 Mbps (5.1) and it is present in all other advanced coding (HD High Resolution and HD Master Audio).<BR/><BR/>Please can you clarify this point and tell me if my impression was wrong.<BR/><BR/>With kind regards and please keep going. We need people like you to help understanding all these new things.<BR/><BR/>JayjayAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-42747493649218512152008-12-24T14:34:00.000-05:002008-12-24T14:34:00.000-05:00KenJr,It looks to me as if the Opus Arte Blu-ray d...KenJr,<BR/><BR/>It looks to me as if the <A HREF="http://www.opusarte.com/pages/product.asp?ProductID=233" REL="nofollow">Opus Arte Blu-ray disc of Mozart's Die Zauberflote</A> has PCM 5.1 audio, all right, but there's no indication as to how high the sample size in bits and sampling rate are.<BR/><BR/>I suggest you <A HREF="http://www.netflix.com/Movie/Mozart_Die_Zauberflote/70026615?trkid=222336&lnkctr=srchrd-sr&strkid=1801939815_0_0" REL="nofollow">rent the title from Netflix</A> and try it on your equipment. I myself don't have an up-to-date AV receiver, but I imagine your receiver can tell you what the vital statistics of the audio stream are, correct? If you like what you see and hear, then you could buy the disc.<BR/><BR/>I agree with you. This information should be easily available, especially with titles intended for connoisseurs.<BR/><BR/>I sometimes take the position that if the audio resolution figures were prepossessing — e.g., 24 bit/196 kHz — the company would advertise them prominently. If they are not so advertised, they are probably of lower quality.erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-5514675408483645252008-12-24T13:45:00.000-05:002008-12-24T13:45:00.000-05:00When a disc notes that it has PCM 5.1 audio, that ...When a disc notes that it has PCM 5.1 audio, that could represent a pretty broad range of sonic quality. I'd be very happy if a purchase featured 24 bit/196 kHz (like that found on the Divertimenti blu-ray audio only disc) but I'd be pretty disappointed if it turned out to be 16 bit 44.1 kHz. I'm trying to find out which opera/classical music sources will feature the best sound for my audio system.<BR/><BR/>For instance, I'm trying to find out the OpusArte bit and sampling rates for its pcm 5.1 blu-ray discs (e.g. The Magic Flute). They don't state this information. I've searched everywhere for this information to no avail. Do you know any way of getting this information? For that matter, do you know what OpusArte's specs are?Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-77956203430377879722008-12-23T20:31:00.000-05:002008-12-23T20:31:00.000-05:00Jack,I now know what is meant by "Analysis leads t...Jack,<BR/><BR/><B>I now know what is meant by "Analysis leads to Paralysis".</B><BR/><BR/>Hee, hee!<BR/><BR/><B>BD35K now down to $250.</B><BR/><BR/>Good. But see the posts in my blog about how you can get a Sony PlayStation 3 for $250 with a $150 rebate for applying for a Sony PlayStation credit card. I just did this myself, and I'm very happy with the PS3. But I don't have an AV receiver yet, and the wonders of 7.1 sound are just a theoretical thing right now for me.<BR/><BR/><B>Apparently, the Yamaha 663 cannot decode and apply the matrix overlay for the 5.1 to 7.1. But, it can do it when receiving PCM.</B><BR/><BR/>For kibitzers: I think Jack means the Yamaha RX-V663 receiver apparently can't take Dolby TrueHD 5.1 or DTS-HD Master Audio 5.1 "bitstream" input from the Blu-ray player and derive the extra two surround channels, for 7.1-channel sound. But it can do this for linear PCM 5.1 input.<BR/><BR/><B>I guess this means the decoders in the A/V are useless, unless I have a Blu Ray disc with 7.1 (good luck, there are only a few) and set to bitstream. Otherwise, the rear surrounds will be silent.</B><BR/><BR/>They're apparently useless with the Yamaha RX-V663 receiver you're looking at, if you need the receiver to derive 7.1-channel audio from 5.1 with the new lossless codecs. I haven't researched other receivers. Are there some (presumably more expensive) ones that do derive 7.1 from 5.1?<BR/><BR/><B>I'm back where I started. Decode in the player. HDMI 1.3 not necessary in the circuitry or the cable using this method.(assuming I understand the capabilities of a 1.1 HDMI cable).</B><BR/><BR/>I personally believe decoding to LPCM in the player and deriving the extra two surround channels, if desired, is a fine choice.<BR/><BR/>I would encourage you to stick to HDMI 1.3 anyway, in any new devices you buy. Why not? It offers several advantages.<BR/><BR/>However, I am skeptical about whether you have to shell out for expensive "HDMI 1.3" cables, specifically. Admittedly, I do not have an elaborate audio setup with an HDMI cable from the player to the receiver and another from the receiver to the TV. I hooked my PS3 to my Samsung HDTV (both of which, I assume, use HDMI 1.3) using an inexpensive non-brand-name HDMI cable that I bought online, and it works fine! I used the same type of HDMI cables for connecting my Apple TV and my TiVo HD to the Samsung TV. All work fine.<BR/><BR/>On the other hand, until the most recent update of the Apple TV software, my Apple TV was flaky, and the online scuttlebutt had it that the problems I and many other users were having were HDMI-related. Many users tried changing to really expensive HDMI cables, but it didn't help. What helped was getting HDMI working right in the device itself.<BR/><BR/>I would recommend you or anybody else start with the inexpensive cable(s) and only move up to the pricey ones if absolutely necessary.<BR/><BR/><B>If 5.1 PCM is matrixed to 7.1, can we conclude that these matrixed channels are also lossless since the data was taken from a lossless track?</B><BR/><BR/>No, that would violate the basic definition of "lossless." The extra two channels don't exist in the input to the decoder, so there's nothing to compare the result of the decoding to, to determine whether it is lossless or not.<BR/><BR/>Cheers,<BR/>Ericerichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-10010487062872917992008-12-23T17:33:00.000-05:002008-12-23T17:33:00.000-05:00Hello Eric,I now know what is meant by "Analysis l...Hello Eric,<BR/><BR/>I now know what is meant by "Analysis leads to Paralysis". BD35K now down to $250. Apparently, the Yamaha 663 cannot decode and apply the matrix overlay for the 5.1 to 7.1. But, it can do it when receiving PCM. I guess this means the decoders in the A/V are useless, unless I have a Blu Ray disc with 7.1 (good luck, there are only a few)and set to bitstream. Otherwise, the rear surrounds will be silent. I'm back where I started. Decode in the player. HDMI 1.3 not necessary in the circuitry or the cable using this method.(assuming I understand the capabilities of a 1.1 HDMI cable). If 5.1 PCM is matrixed to 7.1, can we conclude that these matrixed channels are also lossless since the data was taken from a lossless track?<BR/><BR/>JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-84550557299289070602008-11-15T11:01:00.000-05:002008-11-15T11:01:00.000-05:00Jack,You said:"I've been looking a BD pla...Jack,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"I've been looking a BD players and new A/V receiver on and off for almost a year. At first, this is what I found; it costs around $100 or so more for a BD player to decode the lossless formats as opposed to $300-$400 more for an A/V receiver that could do it. Originally, I was looking to buy a 5.1 A/V receiver. To this day, I can't find a 5.1 A/V receiver with the lossless decoders. Since my wife has decided to redesign the use of our living room, I figured 7.1 would fill a 25x15 area better. It just so happens that the few mid range priced receivers I've been looking at happen to have the TrueHD & DTS MA decoders(Onkyo 606 was the other one). If user reviews are correct, the Panasonic DMP-BD30K ($250) cannot decode (lossless) and send LPCM, but can bitstream all data successfully. The Panasonic DMP-BD35 ($300) according to manufacturer website can do both. Now,there's only a $50 difference and the BD35 has a few extra features that I may or may not need. My current plan is to buy the BD30, save $50, and enjoy lossless sound!!!"<BR/><BR/>I just found out about the new Panasonic DMP-BD35 model of Blu-ray player, and after reading the glowing review of it on CNET ("the best value in standalone Blu-ray players, with excellent image quality, a comprehensive feature set, and a price that's significantly lower than the [Sony PlayStation 3") I've penciled it in as my first Blu-ray player.<BR/><BR/>What we have been discussing in this series of comments concerns a key issue in the Blu-ray world: decode lossless codecs in the player, or in the receiver ... or in <I>both</I> of these, so that you can take advantage of the redundancy when those inevitable is-this-really-working-right? questions pop up.<BR/><BR/>I think if I were you and were set on getting a mid-priced 7.1-channel receiver that decodes the new lossless audio codecs onboard — and that's great if you can afford it — I'd also spend the extra $50 for the BD35 player, over the BD30.<BR/><BR/>Why? Well, it gives you diagnostic redundancy for lossless audio codec playback, it gives you an Ethernet jack for those all-too-common firmware upgrades, and it gives you access to BD-Live Profile 2.0 interactive content. It's also said to be faster at loading discs and more responsive overall than anything except the PS3. And it's a 2008 model, not a 2007, which means superior performance.erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-31879668474037317952008-11-14T13:51:00.000-05:002008-11-14T13:51:00.000-05:00I've been looking a BD players and new A/V rec...I've been looking a BD players and new A/V receiver on and off for almost a year. At first, this is what I found; it costs around $100 or so more for a BD player to decode the lossless formats as opposed to $300-$400 more for an A/V receiver that could do it. Originally, I was looking to buy a 5.1 A/V receiver. To this day, I can't find a 5.1 A/V receiver with the lossless decoders. Since my wife has decided to redesign the use of our living room, I figured 7.1 would fill a 25x15 area better. It just so happens that the few mid range priced receivers I've been looking at happen to have the TrueHD & DTS MA decoders(Onkyo 606 was the other one). If user reviews are correct, the Panasonic DMP-BD30K ($250) cannot decode (lossless) and send LPCM, but can bitstream all data successfully. The Panasonic DMP-BD35 ($300) according to manufacturer website can do both. Now,there's only a $50 difference and the BD35 has a few extra features that I may or may not need. My current plan is to buy the BD30, save $50, and enjoy lossless sound!!!Anonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-39899598635478317772008-11-13T14:45:00.000-05:002008-11-13T14:45:00.000-05:00Jack,You said:"Seriously considering the Yamaha RX...Jack,<BR/><BR/>You said:<BR/><BR/>"Seriously considering the Yamaha RX-V663. Originally, I was not looking for the receiver to decode the lossless formats. I undestood that if the BD player internally decoded, then the receiver just needed to amplify the LPCM (some HDMI equipped receivers ignore the audio potion and use only the video for switching purposes, I guess). The problem with this setup(based on your article) is that I would have no way to verify what the BD player was sending. The receiver would display "Multi-channel input". My conclusion is to have the receiver do the decode if I want to be absolutely sure that I'm hearing everything that there is to hear. I've read several reviews on the Panasonic players and evidently they can bitstream the core and extension since the reviewers are saying the receivers are showing it on the display."<BR/><BR/>You are in an increasingly common position of wanting to be sure what you are actually hearing with Blu-ray discs. (BTW, what Blu-ray player do you have/are you contemplating?)<BR/><BR/>I've just looked at some online reviews of the Yamaha RX-V663 AV receiver, and it appears what you would be getting getting for its midrange price of around $500 "is the cheapest model in the RX-V ... series of Yamaha receivers to support both video upconversion to HDMI and HD audio decoding of Dolby TrueHD and dts HD-MA."<BR/><BR/>That sounds pretty good. Yet I'd have to wonder: If your (current or anticipated) Blu-ray player decodes TrueHD 7.1 core and extension bitstreams to linear PCM 7.1 and outputs the result over HDMI version 1.3, do you really need to pay for another TrueHD decoder in the receiver? (The same question goes for DTS-HD Master Audio decoding.)<BR/><BR/>I would think than any receiver that can confirm on its front display (or, better yet, on the TV screen) that it is receiving LPCM 7.1 from the player would put all your doubts to rest.<BR/><BR/>I know there are some people who doubt that onboard decoding of the new lossless audio codecs by a Blu-ray player gives you results identical to the decoding a receiver can do, but I for one believe that's a myth.<BR/><BR/>I don't yet have a Blu-ray player --- that's next on my list of toys to buy --- and neither do I have a receiver of the advanced type you're looking at. So I can't advise you based on my own hands-on experience. Still, it seems to me that if money is as tight for you as it is for me, you may want to think about avoiding the redundancy of buying two decoders for each of the two types of lossless audio compression on Blu-ray discs!erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-36464653103357294452008-11-13T13:39:00.000-05:002008-11-13T13:39:00.000-05:00Seriously considering the Yamaha RX-V663. Origina...Seriously considering the Yamaha RX-V663. Originally, I was not looking for the receiver to decode the lossless formats. I undestood that if the BD player internally decoded, then the receiver just needed to amplify the LPCM (some HDMI equipped receivers ignore the audio potion and use only the video for switching purposes, I guess). The problem with this setup(based on your article) is that I would have no way to verify what the BD player was sending. The receiver would display "Multi-channel input". My conclusion is to have the receiver do the decode if I want to be absolutely sure that I'm hearing everything that there is to hear. I've read several reviews on the Panasonic players and evidently they can bitstream the core and extension since the reviewers are saying the receivers are showing it on the display.<BR/><BR/>JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-6793323609496432052008-11-12T17:45:00.000-05:002008-11-12T17:45:00.000-05:00Anonymous (Jack):Glad I could help.You asked:"... ...Anonymous (Jack):<BR/><BR/>Glad I could help.<BR/><BR/>You asked:<BR/><BR/>"... if I get a disc with a 5.1 lossless track, will my 7.1 receiver create 2 channels to fill the other 2 surrounds? Seems like receiver specs sometimes use the term "decoder" when actually it's creating (matrixing) extra channels."<BR/><BR/>It's possible that your receiver might fill in the extra two surround channels. What make and model receiver do you have?erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-62495411037849339132008-11-11T13:14:00.000-05:002008-11-11T13:14:00.000-05:00Well put. I believe I finally get it now. I almos...Well put. I believe I finally get it now. I almost regeret trying to do a little homework before upgrading our entertainment. You dang near have to be some sort of engineer to figure out what you are buying and what you are getting. As much as the sound formats interest me, I'll have to remember that audio tracks can't be the primary reason to select a movie. Can you believe that the rest of my family doesn't care what audio tracks are on the disc? They think the movie itself is most important. Imagine that!! Ha Ha! Last question; if I get a disc with a 5.1 lossless track, will my 7.1 receiver create 2 channels to fill the other 2 surrounds? Seems like receiver specs sometimes use the term "decoder" when actually it's creating (matrixing) extra channels.<BR/><BR/>Regards,<BR/>JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-42728374998737321192008-11-11T11:54:00.000-05:002008-11-11T11:54:00.000-05:00Anonymous (Jack) asked:Maybe I'm confused about wh...Anonymous (Jack) asked:<BR/><BR/>Maybe I'm confused about what makes a track lossless. Is lossless defined simply by the fact that there are 2 extra channels in addition to 5.1? When you read, it sounds like each discrete channel has more or is better than the 5.1 in DD or DTS? Heres why I ask; Last night I went and looked at the back of about 20 Blu Ray movies. 8-10 of them said "Dolby TrueHD 5.1". I thought by definition when you see Dolby TrueHD it means there are 7.1 channels? Some discs had a comma or a colon after Dolby TrueHD and then said, English 5.1 or 5.1 PCM. do you think maybe these are typos? Also, some said DTS HD Master Audio and some said DTS HD Master Audio (7.1). My main question is; Dolby TrueHD 5.1??? Doesn't make sense??<BR/><BR/>There are a lot of questions there, Jack. First, "lossless" has nothing to do with the number of channels, whether 5.1 or 7.1. Rather, it has to do with whether the codec used to encode (digitally compress) the channels on the Blu-ray disc throws away information that cannot be recovered when the same codec works in reverse (in the Blu-ray player or in an external AV receiver) to decode (uncompress) the channels.<BR/><BR/>Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master Audio are lossless because the decoding codec in the player or receiver can recover, bit for bit, every iota of information that the encoding version (of the same codec) compressed out. Whether there are 7.1 or 5.1 channels makes no difference. TrueHD and DTS MA tracks are always lossless.<BR/><BR/>Linear PCM is likewise always lossless, no matter how few or many channels there are. This is because PCM encoding does not compress the audio channels at all. You cannot get better sound fidelity than that!<BR/><BR/>But, of course, 5.1 or 7.1 linear PCM takes up more "bitspace" on the disc than 5.1 or 7.1 TrueHD, so TrueHD (or DTS-HD MA) is better in that regard.<BR/><BR/>DD or DTS encoding of up to 5.1 channels is always "lossy," no matter how few or many channels it has. The decoder recreates bitstreams, one per channel, that are not precisely the same as those that were cranked into the encoder. Ideally, the differences are undetectable to the ear.<BR/><BR/>Still, lossless compression (TrueHD or DTS-HD MA) beats DD or DTS, because in reality the bitrate constraints on DD or DTS make the differences between the input and output bitstreams subtly noticeable. You can supposedly <I>hear</I> how much better TrueHD is than old-fashioned DD, for example. And DTS-HD MA is aurally superior to DTS.<BR/><BR/>As for why TrueHD doesn't always have 7.1 channels: that's allowed(!). If the movie was produced with just 5.1 channels, for example, then the Blu-ray disc can have just 5.1 TrueHD. It's still lossless, but the extra two surround channels are absent.<BR/><BR/>If the disc says "Dolby TrueHD, English 5.1," then it means that on that disc there is an English-language audio track using 5.1 channels that have been encoded using TrueHD. If it also says "5.1 PCM," then presumably the same audio is provided in a separate linear PCM 5.1-channel track for those who do not have or do not choose to use a TrueHD decoder.<BR/><BR/>"DTS-HD Master Audio" on the disc cover means just that, without reference to how many channels there are — you can guess that there are actually 5.1 channels, since if there were 7.1, the disc would probably say so: "DTS HD Master Audio (7.1)".<BR/><BR/>In short, Jack, it is not the case that Dolby Digital TrueHD or DTS-HD Master Audio imply 7.1 channels. Rather, those expressions imply strictly lossless encoding/decoding of however many channels there are.erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-27164021857379809842008-11-11T09:34:00.000-05:002008-11-11T09:34:00.000-05:00Maybe I'm confused about what makes a track lossle...Maybe I'm confused about what makes a track lossless. Is lossless defined simply by the fact that there are 2 extra channels in addition to 5.1? When you read, it sounds like each discrete channel has more or is better than the 5.1 in DD or DTS? Heres why I ask; Last night I went and looked at the back of about 20 Blu Ray movies. 8-10 of them said "Dolby TrueHD 5.1". I thought by definition when you see Dolby TrueHD it means there are 7.1 channels? Some discs had a comma or a colon after Dolby TrueHD and then said, English 5.1 or 5.1 PCM. do you think maybe these are typos? Also, some said DTS HD Master Audio and some said DTS HD Master Audio (7.1). My main question is; Dolby TrueHD 5.1??? Doesn't make sense??<BR/><BR/>Sincerely confused,<BR/>JackAnonymousnoreply@blogger.comtag:blogger.com,1999:blog-13259344.post-28212317036747765462008-10-27T14:19:00.000-04:002008-10-27T14:19:00.000-04:00Anonymous asked:Is it possible for an av receiver ...Anonymous asked:<BR/><BR/>Is it possible for an av receiver with True HD and Master Audio decoding to display True HD or Master Audio when the extension data is missing? Does 1.3 circuity eliminate this possibility? Can you have 1.3 at the BD player, 1.3 cable, and 1.3 on the av receiver and still wind up with just the"core"??<BR/><BR/>My assumption is that an AV receiver that displays the TrueHD or Master Audio indicator for a given audio track would never do so unless the "extension" bitstream is actually present at the receiver.<BR/><BR/>On the Blu-ray player there may be a setting that would cause the player to output just the "core" bitstream for TrueHD/Master Audio input tracks. If that setting is used, I would imagine the receiver would <I>not</I> indicate TrueHD/Master Audio, since the "core" by itself is equivalent to Dolby Digital/DTS. I imagine any receiver would act as if it had no idea the audio track on the disk had an "extension" as well as a "core."erichttps://www.blogger.com/profile/05244758906105140609noreply@blogger.com